Some notes on


 This is a confused and confusing, overlong 39,000 word answer to my 24,000 word review of Talageris 500-page book. It  discusses anything from private emails to my lack of English and to the nationality of my wife (sic!).

 There is no need to go into details here as T. has not even begun to rethink his position, as he well should have, particularly with respect to the two major points that effectively deconstruct his 'ground-breaking' book:

(1)  T. has still not read Oldenberg's  seminal work (1888) which describes the ordering of Rgvedic hymns and the way they were collected in several stages. Oldenberg's work stands unopposed by modern scholars, T. excepted of course, but T. offers no systematic refutation, just a little second-hand nibbling at the edges, just as everywhere else in his 'answer'.

 This is best illustrated by T.'s  renewed misunderstanding of the principle underlying  the order of deity collections appearing after the usual Agni and Indra hymns that are found at the start of each Mandala. The various post-Agni/Indra collections (to Brahmanaspati, Visvedeva, Rbhu, etc.) are not a " second set consisting of other hymns ... placed at the end of the collection" and later "inserted into the hymns of the first [collection]" --(how does he know all of this?). Instead, their position simply depends on the *number* of hymns allotted to the deity in question (Oldenberg 1888, Witzel 1997, 2001). In other words, the 'mathematical' priciple carries.
 This extremely *simple* fact can be checked by any grade school reader of a RV edition or translation: deities with the most hymns come first (after Agni/Indra), others follow in numerical decreasing order.  This is not "numerology" but simple counting, as seen in so many other Indian texts. No Vedic mathematics needed either to understand that. All additions to the original RV text are clearly visible on this and on similar grounds (e.g. later combinations of Trca and Pragatha sets, Oldenberg 1888, Witzel 2001).

 The upshot is that T.'s  RV  is not that of the time of the RV authors, and any conclusion based on it also reflects the Brahmana time additions, made until Sakalya's Padapatha. This of course nicely fits the equally late Brahmana time Anukramanis.

(2) T., however, still does not say which Anukramani he used and how he reached the conclusion that it is coeval with the RV. Instead, and rather surprisingly, he now tells us that he did not use *any* Anukramani at all but instead, the names of Rsis, deities and meters printed in the various RV editions before each hymn. A truly philological and historical procedure!

 Also, he still does not want to take notice of the fact that his (now, indirect) source of the Rsi ascription in the editions, the Sarvanukramani, was not even fixed by 500 AD (Scheftelowitz 1922, Witzel 2001) -- as was its counterpart, the Brhaddevata, see the  edition by M. Tokunaga (1997).  In addition, T. simply neglects all other Anukramanis (Macdonnel 1886), Rgvedic or other.
 In sum, T. uses one particular Late Vedic Anukramani to establish the history of Rigvedic times, and compares that with a Rgveda of equally Late Vedic redaction.

   This is what I called "garbage in garbage out:"  By using Late Vedic texts, what can one expect but the Late Vedic/Epic and Puranic  point of view that differs from the truly Rgvedic one by the changes made over centuries?

Enough said.


Macdonell, A.A. Katyayana's Sarvanukramani of the Rigveda, with extracts from  Shadgurusishya's commentary entitled Vedarthadipika; ed. with critical notes and appendices.  Oxford:  Clarendon Press, 1886

Oldenberg, H. Metrische und textgeschichtliche Prolegomena zu einer kritischen Rigveda-Ausgabe. Berlin 1888, repr.  Wiesbaden : F. Steiner, 1982

Scheftelowitz, I. Die Kasmirische Rezension von Katyayanas Sarvanukramani. Zeitschrift fuer Indologie und Iranistik, 1, 1922, 89-113

Tokunaga, M. The Brhaddevata. Kyoto: Rinsen 1997

Witzel, M. The Development of the Vedic Canon and its Schools: The Social and Political Milieu. (Materials on Vedic Sakhas 8). In: Inside the Texts, Beyond the Texts. New Approaches to the Study of the Vedas. Harvard Oriental Series. Opera Minora, vol. 2.  Cambridge 1997, 257-345
---, WESTWARD HO !  The Incredible Wanderlust of the Rgvedic Tribes Exposed by S. Talageri  -- (Saavadhaanapattra no. 2)
A Review of:  Shrikant G. Talageri, The Rigveda. A historical analysis. EJVS 7-2,   March 31, 2001